Dialectical Spiritualism: Carl Jung, Part 9

BY: SUN STAFF - 3.11 2017

Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from  Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

Carl Gustav Jung (1875 - 1961)

Hayagriva dasa: Jung classifies five types of rebirth. One is metempsychosis, by which "...one's life is prolonged in time by passing through different bodily existences; or, from another point of view, it is a life-sequence interrupted by different reincarnations It is by no means certain whether continuity of personality is guaranteed or not: there may be only a continuity of karma."

Srila Prabhupada: A personality is always there, and bodily changes do not affect it. However, one identifies himself according to his body. When the soul, for instance, is within the body of a dog, he thinks according to that particular bodily conception. He thinks, "I am a dog, and I have my particular duty." In human society, when one is bom in America, for instance, he thinks, "I am an American, and I have my duty." According to the body, the personality is manifest, but in all cases, personality is there.

Hayagriva dasa: But is this personality continuous?

Srila Prabhupada: Certainly the personality is continuous. At death, the same soul passes into another gross body, along with its mental and intellectual identifications. The individual acquires different types of bodies, but the person is the same.

Hayagriva dasa: This would correspond to what Jung calls reincarnation, the second type of rebirth: "This concept of rebirth necessarily implies the continuity of personality," he writes. "Here the human personality is regarded as continuous and accessible to memory, so that when one is incarnated or born, one is able, at least potentially, to remember that he has lived through previous existences and that these existences were one's own, i.e., that they had the same ego-form as the present life. As a rule, reincarnation means rebirth in a human body."

Srila Prabhupada: Not necessarily into a human body. From Srimad Bhagavatam, we learn that Bharata Maharaja became a deer in his next life, and after being a deer, he became a brahmana. The soul is changing bodies just as a man changes his dress. The man is the same, although his dress may be different.

vasafnsi jirnani yatha vihaya 
navani grhnati naro ' parani 
tatha sarirani vihaya jirnany 
anyani saihyati navani dehi

"As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (. Bg. 2.22) When a dress is old and cannot be used anymore, one has to exchange it for another. In a sense, you purchase a new dress with the money, or karma, you have accumulated in your life. The man is the same, but his dress is supplied according to the price he can pay. According to your karma, you receive a certain type of body.

Hayagriva dasa: For Jung, the third type of rebirth, called resurrection, may be of two types: "It may be a carnal body, as in the Christian assumption that this body will be resurrected." That is, according to Christian doctrine, at the end of the world, the gross bodies will reassemble themselves and ascend into heaven, or descend into hell.

Srila Prabhupada: And what will the person do in the meantime?

Hayagriva dasa: I don't know. Obviously the material elements disperse.

Srila Prabhupada: The material body is finished, but the spiritual body is always there. This type of resurrection talked about is applicable to God and His representatives, not to all. In this case, it is not a material body, but a spiritual one. When God appears, He appears in a spiritual body, and this body does not change. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says that He spoke to the sun god millions of years ago, and Arjuna questioned how this could be possible. Krsna replies that although Arjuna had been present, he could not remember. Remembrance is possible only if one does not change bodies. Changing bodies means forgetting.

Hayagriva dasa: Jung admits that on a higher level, the process is not material. "It is assumed that the resurrection of the dead is the raising up of the corpus gloriafication is, the subtle body, in the state of incorruptibility."

Srila Prabhupada: This is the spiritual body, which never changes. According to the Mayavadi conception, the Absolute Truth is impersonal, and when He comes as a person, He accepts a material body. Those who are advanced in spiritual knowledge, who accept the Bhagavad-gita, understand that this is not the case.

avajananti mam mudha 
manusith tanum asritam 
param bhavam ajananto 
mama bhuta-mahesvaram

"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be." (. Bg. 9. 1 1) Because Krsna appears like a human being, the unintelligent think that He is nothing but a human being. They have no knowledge of the spiritual body.

Hayagriva dasa: The fourth form of rebirth is called renovation, and this refers to "the transformation of a mortal into an immortal being, of a corporeal into a spiritual being, and of a human into a divine being." As an example, Jung cites the ascension of Christ into heaven.

Srila Prabhupada: We say that the spiritual body never dies, and the material body is subject to destruction. Nayam hanti na hanyate (Bg. 2.19). After the material body's destruction, the spiritual body is still there. It is neither generated nor killed.

Hayagriva dasa: But aren't there examples of a kind of ascension into heaven? Didn't Arjuna ascend?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, and Yudhisthira. There are many instances. The special instance is Krsna Himself and His associates. But we should never consider their bodies material. They didn't go through death of any sort, although their bodies traveled to the higher universe. But it is also a fact that everyone possesses a spiritual body.

Hayagriva dasa: The fifth type of rebirth is indirect, like an initiation ceremony, or the twice-born ceremony of transformation. "Through his presence at the rite, the individual participates in divine grace."

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, one's first birth is by his father and mother, and the next birth is by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. When one takes his second birth, he comes to understand that he is not the material body. That is spiritual education. That birth of knowledge, or birth into knowledge, is called dvijah.