Second Conversation With Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Part 7

BY: SUN EDITORS - 9.8 2023

SBD: Maharaja, the other day you were telling me that when Srila Prabhupada was inaugurating the Mayapur temple then you went there along with your disciple, Govinda Maharaja, and you made Govinda Maharaja give a lecture.

SM: Bengali
Yes, and I also gave a lecture
And in that lecture Govinda Maharaja said, "He (Srila Prabhupada) considers me like his own son and he considers my spiritual master, Sridhara Maharaja, as his siksa guru." In that assembly Krsnadasa Babaji Maharaja also was present.

Govinda Maharaja quoted the sloka, "___________________________________________________________________________ Who will believe this at this present time? Through him Srila Prabhupada has done something that is beyond belief. He has done something unbelievable." Saying this, he said that, "He loves me like his own son and he considers my spiritual master as his siksa guru." And he, Srila Prabhupada is so humble that in reply to this he said, "Whatever Govinda Maharaja has said is correct. I consider him like my son and I consider his spiritual master, Srila Sridhara Maharaja, as my siksa guru." And then he glorified me by saying om visnupada etc. and giving jaya dhani. He was so humble. And I became a little ashamed due to this.
English: That was a fact and that must have been recorded also. I don't know.

BCS: Bengali: Dhira Krsna Maharaja wants to ask two more questions.

DKS: One question is that in the Fourth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam in the story of Dhruva Maharaja it is mentioned that Suniti was his patha-pradarsaka guru, vartma-pradarsaka guru and siksa guru, and by dint of the devotional service of Dhruva Maharaja, he took her… she was unable to go… back to Godhead. And Srila Prabhupada mentions there that we can understand that by powerful execution of devotional service of a disciple, he can even take his diksa or siksa guru back to Godhead. So the question is, these disciples of these new gurus, they are reading Srila Prabhupada's books and it appears that they have the opportunity to become more advanced than even their siksa and diksa gurus. You understand? And they can take them…

BCS: translated Dhira Krsna Maharaja's question into Bengali

SM: In the absolute consideration that is possible. The previous accumulation of the character of sukriti may be of very high quality and the vartma-pradarsaka guru like Suniti, she may be of the third class guru, two legs here and vision on Vaikuntha, hmm. And suggestion, first suggestion may come from the third class guru and the fundamental, previous sukriti is such qualified that with this little suggestion, he may go higher than this vartma-pradarsaka and then of course he may attract him towards the high plane. This depends on the previous quality and the quantity of the sukriti. Little starting, little oblique… ______ is the force. He may pull up higher than the suggested guru and the sight. It may be possible. Rarely it may be possible, but this aloka dham, there are four kinds of bhagavat. The bhakti comes acquired and mercy. Two sides. From mercy, from main thing mercy comes down, and acquired bhakti. Two classes. Acquired bhakti by sukriti and mercy when it comes down from the Lord's side. That is unknown nature, ahaituki. So when acquired sukriti, that mercy sukriti comes down, then the guru may be crossed over, third class guru may be crossed over. ____________ Just as in the case of Bilvamangal. In the Bilvamangal's case they were… _____________ Cintamani jayati… siksas guru bhagavan sikivims, stage by stage… sukriti. First suggestion came from the prostitute, who told that Krsna's direction through the prostitute. So anyhow, she was the ___________, the outer soul, so cintamani jayati then ______________ mayavadi guru, he first gave initiation Svananda simha, everything is false, brahma is true. Then spontaneous, by chance, _________________ grace from Krsna came down and took him ___________ gradual, hmm. Gradual development we can ___trace___ there even from the meanest position. It is possible sometimes.

DKS: In Srila Prabhupada's last will he established the GBC as the managing, the supreme managing authority of ISKCON. So, but with the establishment of eleven spiritual masters it has become in the GBC that actually eleven people are making the decisions and not the full Governing Body. So the non-acarya section of the GBC is discouraged and unable to fully execute their voice as GBC members. The non-acarya section of the GBC are either simply agreeing with the acaryas or they, in anticipation of becoming acaryas themselves, they agree with the acaryas.

BCS: translates the above into Bengali. Bengali: There is a proposal the GBCs should also be included as initiating gurus.

DKS: So Ramesvara Maharaja's suggestion is to extend…

SM: Bengali: Only the GBCs, not outside the GBCs?

BCS: Bengali: No.

SM: Bengali: He is in charge of which zone?

BCS: Bengali: He is in charge of Los Angeles temple.

SM: Bengali: I guess Hansadutta Maharaja also has that sort of idea.

BCS: Bengali: Well maybe right now he is thinking that way, but previously they were all thinking alike, that is, none of them really wanted to increase the number of the gurus. They were thinking that these eleven are all in all and they did not want to include anybody else.

SM: Bengali: I told them right at the beginning when they came to discuss with me about this after Swami Maharaja departed. Then I suggested that this should be made into dynamic practice so that every year during Gaura Purnima some new gurus can be included. Then the other party, the noninitiating godbrothers will have their confidence on the initiating godbrothers and give their support to them. Otherwise if they maintain some rigid practice then the relationship will be cracked. This was my suggestion but they did not care about that. On the other hand, emphatically they said that "No, only these eleven that Srila Prabhupada has selected will, that if you include some more initiating gurus that will be favorable. As it is, when you all are going to leave, then you have to appoint your disciples as initiating gurus. You have to empower your disciples so why can't you do that to your brothers? Can there be no qualified person? So better you keep it open. This practice will be very dynamic. If needed, you eliminate some people also from their position of guru and include also somebody when he is qualified.

BCS: Bengali: asks Sridhara Maharaja to speak this in English so that everybody can hear it in his voice.

SM: speaks it in English: My suggestion was that when after the demise, disappearance of Swami Maharaja, mostly of his main disciples came to meet me. My suggestion was that during this Gaura Purnima ceremony, generally you will have to convene a general meeting and there, you particularly follow this idea that the acarya board and the GBC, that should be a living, dynamic thing. It will be able to extend itself and also to narrow down. Elimination and addition. You will be able to do.

BCS: Elimination?

SM: If necessary. Just now there is (name)'s case, and the others. Both elimination and addition. Keep it open and make it a living one.

DKS: They are more inclined toward elimination but not addition.

SM: … not addition. But anyhow, they went away, did not oppose me here, but after going away from me, I heard they expressed that no, these eleven, we must not go outside the eleven. That was their considered opinion and I heard that. But my suggestion was that this body must be a living one, it will be… it should eliminate and it should add. Because you are now in such a position that you will be able to confer your, or delegate your power to your disciple. Then why not to the godbrother. With you the succession won't end, your disciple you must appoint to be… to do the work of an acarya. Then why do you not delegate your power to your good, fit godbrother to do the work of acarya? That was my contention. But they did not accept this idea. No, we won't go beyond the eleven. That was their decision and so they go on and rather avoiding me. That was the cause of their avoidance, and indifference towards me. I think like so. Sometimes they come with particular case but not for general advice.

DKS: So, if someone is above the advice of the, godbrother of his spiritual master… it says in Prabhupada's books that you are supposed to regard… nonenvious godbrother as being equal to your spiritual master. So if someone thinks that he is above or beyond his advice then he is taking a superior position to his own spiritual master.

BCS: translates into Bengali

DKS: Therefore one can understand why people question their position.

SM: (laughs) Bengali: So now they won't want to listen to the uncle gurus. That way [____________________] but actually the nephew can supercede the uncle also.

BCS: Bengali: Yes, they may, but they do not.

SM: Bengali: Actually, they have gone or not. That criterion is different in absolute consideration. Relatively they will offer their respects but the nephew can also supercede the uncle. But still we will give him his due respect.

BCS: Bengali: Caitanya Mahaprabhu told Ballabha Acarya that the one who does not recognize the superiority of the spiritual master, he is like a prostitute. The one who thinks that he has superceded his spiritual master, he is to be considered as a prostitute.

SM: Bengali: Noticing the realization of Ballabha Acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that. But in the line of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Jiva Goswami he has mildly differed from Sridhara Swami. Like "tejo vari mrdam, jata vini mayam". This vini mayam, Sridhara Swami has translated as "implementation" but Jiva Goswami did not agree with him. He said that vini maya never means implementation or imposition. Vini maya means transformation. So Jiva Goswami differed with him in this respect. But Ballabha Acarya, to establish some faulty conclusion, in spite of being the disciple of Sridhara Swami, he attacked him. That was his audacity. There was no substance in it. That's why Mahaprabhu has rejected him.

BCS: Bengali: At least there was some scriptural understanding. But here there is no scriptural understanding.