Dialectical Spiritualism: Thomas Henry Huxley, Part 2

Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from  Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

VIII. EVOLUTIONARY NATURALISM 
Thomas Henry Huxley (1825 - 1895)

Syamasundara dasa: Huxley believes that because nature is amoral, man must not imitate but must combat nature.

Srila Prabhupada: There is no question of combatting nature. You can not conquer nature. Of course, everyone is perpetually trying to fight nature, but in Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says:

daivi hy esa gunamayi 
mama maya duratyaya 
mam eva ye prapadyante 
mayam etafa taranti te

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it." (Bg. 7.14) It is impossible to defeat material nature. You are trying to live, but material nature deals death to everyone. This combat is going on, but nature is always stronger. No one has ever been successful in battling nature.

Syamasundara dasa: Is it true that nature is amoral?

Srila Prabhupada: Nature is most moral because she is abiding by the order of Krsna. How can nature be mistaken? In Brahma-samhita (5.44) it is said: srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir-eka chayeva yasya bhuva nani vibharti durga. Durga, material nature, is so powerful that she can create, maintain, and annihilate.

Syamasundara dasa: Huxley based his morality on sympathy, and he claimed that nature has no sympathy.

Srila Prabhupada: Nature has all sympathy because she is working under the orders of Krsna. Nature is very much like the police. When a person breaks the law, he thinks that the police are most unsympathetic, but if a person abides by the law, the police are friends and protectors. In any case, this is the proposal.

Syamasundara dasa: It would appear that if one man's house bums down and another man's doesn't, there is no sympathy involved — just arbitrariness and chance.

Srila Prabhupada: It is not arbitrary. It is not by chance. It is clearly stated that material nature is working under the orders of Krsna. Since Krsna is not immoral, one carrying out His orders cannot be immoral. The apparent punishment dealt by nature is also sympathy. Mother Durga is always seen with a trident in her hand, and she is always punish ing, but this is indirectly moral. She is punishing living entities so that they will become Krsna conscious. She puts them in all kinds of miser able conditions in order to bring them to awareness of Krsna, to the consciousness whereby they can understand that if they surrender unto Krsna, they will be free. It is not possible to conquer nature by material contrivances. We can conquer nature only by rendering devotional service to the Lord. The material attempt to conquer or control nature is man's disease, his attempt to imitate Krsna. Such imitation is never perfection.

Syamasundara dasa: Still, Huxley felt that man could improve his environment. Agriculturally, for instance.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but although the governments are promising people more and more, the people are becoming more miserable. They give man food to eat, facilities to sleep, to have sex life, and assurance from danger. These are the primary necessities, and even an animal can be satisfied with these. But man cannot. Because he has developed consciousness, man wants something more. Therefore in human society there is music, art, philosophy, and religion. But if man utilizes his developed consciousness simply to eat, sleep, defend, and mate, he will never be satisfied. Man's higher consciousness should be utilized to develop Krsna consciousness. The material struggle for survival is not natural. Struggle is unnatural. Our natural condition is enjoyment.

Syamasundara dasa: But, by use of intelligence, can't man come to understand the world, and in this way make his own world?

Srila Prabhupada: It is stated in Bhagavad-gita:

antavat tu phalafa tesam 
tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam 
devan deva-yajo yanti 
mad-bhakta yanti mam api

"Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet." (Bg. 7.23) It is up to you. If you want to remain here, you can. Krsna has given us intelligence and all facilities. It is now up to us to make our choice, whether to go to heaven, hell, or to Krsna.

Hayagriva dasa: Huxley looked on civilization as something of an at tempt to give order to nature. Civilization might be defined then as a complex ethical understanding between men enabling as many men as possible to survive.

Srila Prabhupada: That is not possible. You cannot dictate to nature; rather, nature will dictate death to you. According to the laws of material nature, there is no question of survival. When you can actually dictate to material nature, then you can survive. This is possible only through Brahman realization, as explained in Bhagavad-gita:

mam, ca yovyabhicarena 
bhakti-yogena sevate 
sa gunan samatltyaitan 
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate

"One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman." {Bg. 14.26)